↓ Expand ↓
» About This Blog

DEA already admits defeat on synthetic marijuana ban?

Which is/are now illegal in the US?

For those following our most persistent story of the last year or so, you’ve already heard that the US Drug Enforcement Administration declared as controlled substances five synthetic cannabimimetics present in “herbal incense” products such as K2 Spice, Mr. Nice Guy, and Blaze. These compounds include JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47,497, and cannabicyclohexanol.

With respect to our chemistry audience here, I discussed on New Year’s Eve how the DEA has authority to also regulate “analogues” [sic] of compounds that have been assigned to Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. This amendment to the act gives the DEA latitude to prosecute the sale, use, and possession of chemical analogs or compounds pharmacologically-similar to those explicitly listed as controlled substances. What authority decides what’s an analog or not is still a mystery to me and was the subject of that post.

In anticipation of yesterday’s final rule, synthetic marijuana marketers had already been reformulating their products with compounds not named in this rule but existing among the portfolio of retired Clemson University organic chemist, John W. Huffman – namesake of the JWH compounds. (The compound most commonly cited by readers and commenters at my blogs is JWH-250.). As I understood the DEA’s authority, sale of these products containing apparently still-legal compounds could still potentially be prosecuted.

Well, in a story from Minnesota Public Radio, a DEA spokesperson is already apparently admitting defeat in response to retailers who are stocking products free of the five named compounds:

[Last Place On Earth shop owner Jim] Carlson said that with about 210 similar chemicals available, the manufacturers will try to keep one step ahead of the government

“Unfortunately he is correct,” said Barbara Carreno, a DEA spokeswoman in Washington, who confirmed Tuesday that many suppliers are offering retailers products with new chemicals. “There are many of these substances and we chose five common ones because we don’t have the resources to study all of them.”

Hmmm. Really?

As we’ve also discussed here, several states including North Carolina have put forth legislation that exhaustively bans potentially hundreds of analogs of synthetic cannabimimetics. While the DEA limited their rule to five, it seems odd to me that they are saying, “Oh well,” when they seem to have the authority to apply the rule to related compounds.

After all of the quibbling and delay since the DEA first announced its intention to enact this rule last November, is anyone else confused by this throwing up of hands?

118 Comments

  • Mar 2nd 201110:03
    by Brian Thomas

    Reply

    Hey Dave,
    The legislation by NC is exhaustive (over the top even?), and it doesn’t have a researcher exemption either. In our analyses, we have seen JWH-018, -073, -250, -081 and -372(?) in products being sold in NC prior to the ban taking place. Looks like this one could be a challenge for a while, as detection and surveillance could require considerable effort.
    Best regards,
    Brian

    • Mar 15th 201208:03
      by matt

      Reply

      I believe the new ( potpourri ) is no more harmful than alcohol way more people die from that than k2 or any synthetic if the government were smart they would realize that by adding an additional tax to it they would reduce weed trafficing and possible help eliminate the economically huge debt we as the USA have gottin ourselves into.

      • Apr 7th 201201:04
        by Mr. 4:20

        Reply

        Screw synthetics make weed legal.

      • Jul 17th 201211:07
        by heatherlynn

        Reply

        Nice!

  • Mar 3rd 201115:03
    by ConcernedParent

    Reply

    OH YES – The legislation by NC SHOULD BE exhaustive as should the DEA ban.

    My son smoked K2 or Spice – laced with variations of JWH-xxx -018, -073, -250, -081 and -372 from purchases of products being sold in NC prior to the ban and is NOW in a psych hospital dealing with the resulting anxiety attacks, rapid heartbeat, agression, anger, depression etc. He is being treated as a bipolar/schizophrenic person heavily sedated and on suicide watch, when previously he had only normal 20-year old behavioral indications.

    GET THIS STUFF OF THE STREET – IT IS NOT SOMETHING ANYONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH – OR WATCH SOMEONE GO THROUGH!

    • Mar 9th 201121:03
      by max

      Reply

      Your son’s issues may have been exacerbated or even precipitated by drugs — whether synthetic or otherwise — but it’s just plain ignorant to pin blame on substances which you have no evidence to back up. Judging by many of the comments on this blog, I’d more likely attribute to the cause of mental illness to overzealous ‘helicopter’ parenting. If anyone considers hovering over their children and watching their every move good parenting ideals, they should probably schedule a psych evaluation or perhaps educate themselves a bit.

      • Jul 17th 201211:07
        by heatherlynn

        Reply

        yurp :[ dont blame the drugs, clearly there are some underlying issues with your son that were not properly addressed.

      • Jul 17th 201211:07
        by heatherlynn

        Reply

        wow.. well put! the children of intense parents and religious parents suffer from guilt. Guilt makes me pretty anxious…and
        i don’t have much.

    • Apr 7th 201118:04
      by Another concerned parent

      Reply

      Mine as well. He is now in rehab.

    • May 21st 201102:05
      by dmac

      Reply

      Your son’s problem was not the fact he was smoking a synthetic drug it is that he had a drug abuse problem. The various synthetics are very similar to THC in chemical structure, this in turn creates similar effects due to the way it reacts on CB receptors 1 and 2(just as marijuana does). All drugs have a potential for abuse, but blaming one specific substance is absurd. The other concerning issue is the fact these synthetics are blended with herbs using acetone. In all fairness the government continues to profit off tabacco, why is one ok and not the other?

      • Jan 13th 201219:01
        by whoisthisguy

        Reply

        i’m sure you know all of the facts huh. well i’ve been smoking actual marijuana(none of that government made BULL****) for about 10 years now and not once did i ever have a psychotic break down or any sort of mental illness. I think you just need to accept that marijuana is perfectly fine(even less potent than alcohol) and that there’s zero related marijuana death and mental illness in the past few years. lets not blame the people that use these drugs, lets blames does that manufacture and sell them as safe haven drugs and when there really deadlier than any naturally grown plant

        • Apr 19th 201205:04
          by Gshhiit

          Reply

          I did that shit today and I bad tripped nasty Af stick to smoking weed , mad people have bugged out on the spice shit , being on papers sucks I know but if u gotta stop blazing don’t smoke spice just hold your self off till u ain’t on papers no more strait up if i wouldn’t had stayed calm on that mr nice guy panic shit and taken deep breaths I would had a heart attack g shit you don’t want to experience that feeling I felt like my mind completely left reality in a bad way though like I was gonna end up retarded . Smoke weed fuck the bull shit !

          • Sep 12th 201209:09
            by mark Valentine

            I have bad tripped on that stuff too many times I quit it 3 months ago.

      • Mar 17th 201217:03
        by Misty Miranda

        Reply

        Ok so you are going to talk to a parent of kid that is obviously having problems to which you know nothing about. You have allot of nerve!!! For you get a grip and stop being so loosed lip with your comments, for the parent, my son who knows right from wrong tried Kick ass which is a form of spice and sold illegally to him (hes 13) now at this very min is a run away and its because we keep finding spice on him and he cannot handle us taking it from him now. It is addictive. You are not talking to a parent that is in denial. I have 6 kids and a life and history of my own. God Bless you and dont let anyone bring you down when you are reaching out.

    • Oct 2nd 201116:10
      by Kim

      Reply

      Please contact me!!!! My son is in a bad place because of this K-2 drug!

      • Dec 17th 201115:12
        by chuck

        Reply

        You need to sit down and talk about this to him,I have the same problem,so I took all his stuff relating to these products and threw them out,and told him,if you want to kill yourself don’t do it around me.I have watched his speech slur,fallen asleep while eating,or just sitting with his eyelids half closed,and a far away look on his face,expressionless,these people that scream about it being safe are just uneducated in such matters,it’s a shame,they all think they discovered something new,this crap and others like it has been around a while,better get with the program people,have this stuff outlawed,since everbody’s system is different,it may not kill little Bobby,but it could kill little Billy,common sense,think about it,and get it banned nationally.The life you save,could very well be your own child.

        • Jan 25th 201212:01
          by Joe

          Reply

          No, it cant kill little billy. In fact, it hasnt killed ANYONE. EVER.

          If your crazy son ate chocolate cookies, would that be the reason he went crazy?

          Ryes syndrome kills but asprin is legal. People die from red bull. When you have 300 million in a sample, 1 in a million occurances happen 300 times a day.

          Remember when marijuana was called a gateway drug? Is alcohol a gateway drug? no. Because its legal. Marijuana being illegal, just like cocaine, heroine, lsd, meth, ketamine, etc… means that when you go to your pot dealers house, he might have smack too. in for a penny in for a pound.

          There used to be a commercial that claimed marijuana funded terrorism. 2 guys were at lunch, one was laughing about that ridiculous statement. His buddy clanked his fork down, wiped his mouth with his napkin and said… well it does. It does fund terrorists.

          Ok, im all for that. Marijuana funds terrorists. Ok.

          So what does it do for terrorism when I grow pot? What would it do for terrorism if we just legalized it- or at the least regulated it? California is not burning to ashes- pun intended.

          Synthetic marijuana is bad stuff. Yep. Cigarettes are, alcohol is, synthetic marijuana isnt nearly as bad as either. Id rather smoke marijuana than synthetic marijuana. But since we live in this country that is full of so many ignorant pseudo intelectuals like the people who are claiming their kids are crazy because of it, And because the economy in many parts of the country depend on marijuana as a cash crop, it will probably always be illegal.

          I use synthetic marijuana all the time. Do I seem like I can express my thoughts effectively? Im not schizophrenic, im not paranoid, or bi polar. You might be interested to know that cannabinoids can mitigate the effects of many mental illnesses, namely the ones you claimed your son has. Its a google search… thats all.

          The life you save could be your own childs… Chuck, I have a feeling that you might be stupid. It sounds to me like your son is going on the nod… and junkies happen to smoke weed. Or synthetic weed. You are the shame… because we are talking about objective reality. Find me ONE case of ONE person dieing from ANY cannabinoid.

          So either your son is the most sensitive person in the world to spice… or he is smoking bath salts. (synthetic mdma, heroine, meth, crack) yeah. you cant even write, can, you, chuck, its, called, a, period, chuck. see? Proper punctuation, taught to you by a pot head. Thanks alot for proving my point.

          • Apr 13th 201203:04
            by Steve

            Hurr I’m smart ‘cuz I can smoke shit that has an unknown chemical composition AND criticize one’s punctuation!

            Grow the fuck up, Joe.

      • Apr 13th 201202:04
        by Steve

        Reply

        You simply have to stop using for about a week – provided that the damage isn’t too bad, and your son has a strong constitution, he should be fine. I smoked different blends for about a year, and started noticing things that would take too much time to list, let’s just say it was really f*cking up my body – even to the point to where I had diarrhea, nightly sweats and vomiting, and started hacking up black/brown velvety looking stuff – and even bumps on my tongue. Coming off of this stuff is definitely hard, but you just have to force your way past the shakes, inability to control body temperature, inability to drink/eat very much at once, get on some vitamins and force yourself to start getting nutrition (I found I was neglecting my health quite badly on this stuff, because it literally becomes all you care about, all you live for) – and your son’s body should right itself within time, hopefully. I’m a few weeks clean now and feel better than I have in months – and I don’t crave it anymore, either – but that first week, let me tell you, it’s hell – so be sympathetic and don’t be a bitch because he’s being a dick – which he will – just do what you can to help him. In the end, it’s his choice – but hopefully these words help.

        Take care.

      • Jan 14th 201316:01
        by Pete Souza

        Reply

        My son Tim has been doing spice for awhile he is becoming a problem for my wife and i.He claims that when he started he liked girls now he has a crush a a male friend of his.could spice do this thank you lost in Maine

    • Oct 27th 201113:10
      by shelle

      Reply

      I am responding to the post from “Concerned Parent,” of which has a son in a psych hospital. You mentioned that the K2 that your son smoked was laced; can you tell me if it was laced due to the merchant the k2 was purchased from or if a certain strand was laced? Obviously, I am unclear to the makeup of K2 and am trying to educate myself to it’s harmful ingredients.
      I have a 17 year old son that smoked numerous strands of K2 daily for about a year. Seven months ago, he told me that he stopped smoking K2 because it was “messing up his brain.” Shortly after, he claimed to have a parasite infestation in his body, and described feeling parasites crawling under his skin and in his brain; he said the parasites were trying to take over his brain to kill him. Since this incident, my son has continued with bizarre behavior of which consists of hallucinations, and paranoia. My son believes that his dad and I are trying to hurt him by putting stuff in his food that he has described as “peanut oil, poppy seeds, stuff that is given to the children in Africa to fatten them up, pieces of fabric and metal balls.” He feels that our purpose for doing this is to make him fat, sick and crazy. Every-time we are out in public he accuses us for plotting against him with workers at stores or food establishments in order to tamper with his food. It is incredibly difficult and hurtful to see my son in this mental state, at this point I am searching for answers to the cause and although I am unsure if K2 is the cause, it seems logical given the correlation between his decision to quit K2 and his change in behavior. Before K2, my son was a normal, intelligent, happy, fun loving easy going kid with a bright future. There is no mental illness or drug abuse in our family. The correlation to his decision to quit smoking K2 and the change in his behavior seems that K2 is the cause. I am searching for answers. My son received psychoanalysis testing this week and will also undergo an MRI next month. Looking for possible brain damage.

      • Dec 1st 201120:12
        by knows

        Reply

        that sounds like meth to me on top of some mental illness that appeared for some reason, Im terrible sorry to hear about this

      • Jan 19th 201222:01
        by Dan Francis

        Reply

        I feel for this situation.

        Cannabinoids exacerbate schizophrenia. Latent schizophrenia will emerge as a result of use of some of these compounds. As will other GABA receptor conditions like epilepsy. My suspicion is that is what has happened here. I, of course do not know that to be true and mean no disrespect.

      • Jan 25th 201212:01
        by Joe

        Reply

        Parasites in his skin? yeah. I love bath salts. Hon, your son was smoking fake methamphetamines. A rudimentary understanding of the signs of different drug use would be helpful to you.

        Mom I smoked fake weed….. “oh billy, thats just not good. Kids these days… boys will be boys”

        Mom ive been smoking fake crystal meth “oh no! oh no! oh no! no!”

        Your son has without a doubt, I mean… im 100% completely positive that he has been smoking bath salts. Now you obviously cant trust someone like me, because I get high.

        So why dont you go ahead and google the symptoms of meth use. I went to college for it, so im kinda knowledgeable on the topic.

        Oh, and hey… did you know that they banned 5 cannabinoids, but didnt ban bathsalts? yeah. That is a truism. AND, since spice couldnt have cannabinoids in it, they just threw some fake crack in it. Yep. That was common about a year ago. I found out after I smoked a bowl and cut my grass….. with a weed eater. I live on 4 acres.

    • Nov 16th 201123:11
      by Dan

      Reply

      Your son was likely doing a lot more then just synthetic drugs, if he had started using them, he probably tried lots of other things also. Also by your exstream response here, it’s pretty obvious why he was trying to find a escape from life, your failed attempt at parenting.

      • Jan 25th 201212:01
        by Joe

        Reply

        Actually he probably wasnt. YOU JUST DONT GET IT.

        Just like all drugs are not created equal, neither are synthetic drugs.

        Charlie sheen man. Thats all I gotta say.

        Spice is not bath salts. Thats all. Pretty easy to understand that crack isnt pot.

        So why is it so hard for you people to understand that bathsalts arent spice?

        Smoking bathsalts will CERTAINLY cause psychosis. just like using crack, or meth, or mdma will. Heroine wont.

        The word is extreme. I know, phonics are tricky. Stream, dream, cream, extreme. no a.

        And for the record, you dont know what kind of parent that person is. So, try to be a little more socratic, and a little less stalinic.
        I made up that last word. Who cares, im a pot head.

        • Mar 7th 201322:03
          by mike

          Reply

          Heroine will cause psychosis if used too much. Any opiate will.

    • Jan 21st 201214:01
      by Tom

      Reply

      I really do feel your pain, but rather not discuss the details here. I found your post rather ironic because of so many others on Topix, etc are actually defending this fake stuff as be a great way to “kick back, and relax”.

      This just happened to of kicked off quickly as the prescription drug provider state, Florida, finally got serious about their pain pill clinics flooding the country of oxycodone etc. I bet the same plyares are even involved, with regards to these new designer drugs, we have even further proof of how much the drug war has failed.

    • Mar 17th 201217:03
      by Misty Miranda

      Reply

      My heart and prayers go out to you and your family. My son is on the street now and he is only 13. I have 6 and he is numb 6 and none of us can reach him. Take care of you and your family and ignore the ignorant whom do not have kids going through this, and like to leave comments based on their ignorance.

    • Apr 25th 201221:04
      by "Spice" NOT "Bath Salts"

      Reply

      Oh Pleeease! Many of the sad story posts are from IGNORANT (but well-meaning) PARENTS who don’t know any difference between “SPICE” and “BATH SALTS”. Just blame something, right??? (But keep Alcohol and Tobacco legal, because that’s what your generation and the gov’t likes, you damn HYPOCRITES!)

    • May 18th 201220:05
      by bob

      Reply

      Well what most parents want to do is blame others but what they fail to realize is it they had better communation with there kids the children would not self medicate ever think ur kids hide emotional problems ur child may have had the issues along a lot are genitic what would u say if tjhey did gentic testing and said he had it all along who’s to blame then u I would assume for a free countryh sure seems like other countrys have more freedom why not ban all pestides spray paints glues adhesives gas etc or meds shit the phtsic meds ur kid takes are problay worse then what he smoked also he may be lieing to get drugs to get high legaly shit some many factors people assume things what no proff get edviance id bet more people die from alchole chemical fumes gas leaks carbondixoide construction accadents car accdents do u know in 1 year there are more murders in the US then deaths of 2 wars we been at for past 11 years why not ban germs sex cars also the gov has interlock systems to stop people from driving drunk to save lives only if u have a dui well if we all have to were seat belts have airbags inspection to keep people safe also drivers liscen why not all cars have interlock system to stop drinking and driving period why does gov not make that a law to save peoples lifes not only the victim but drunk who made a bad dessicon due to being intoxicated and not in right frame of mindthen has to live with that goes to jail fines record I could debate so much shit problay u do all the time why go after this ur son made the decission to use it where did he get the money why were u not watching or supervisoning him shit u should be responsible child neglect how old is ur kid why did he not know not to use it did he get money off u where is the store located problay in the neighborhood u moved into why did u not move to keep him far away from any substances why did u not ask about his issues get him to dr. There are so many varibals point is he used it in a incorrecxt manner everyone I saw sayys not for human consumption does he go to school can he read who are his friends and did u give him an allowance or cahs then if u did why did u not supervise what he bough why not incourage him to save in a bank

      • Aug 5th 201304:08
        by Ajax

        Reply

        Oh my god… upon reading this thread I literally facepalmed. I feel for your son. He has psychosis. However, it is very likely that he has NOT been taking “bath salts” or “fake methamphetamines” as the latest parenting craze(uneducated people) would like you to believe. The fact is, ALL cannabinoids, INCLUDING run of the mill marijuana, have the capacity to cause psychosis. Especially if your son has a pre-existing condition such as schizophrenia. Bringing out mental disorders is a well known side effect of THC and other cannabinoids. Not only that, all cannabinoids (and hallucinogens, and stimulants for that matter) can cause psychosis in COMPLETELY HEALTHY people in the case of an overdose or a psychedelic crisis aka a “bad trip”. Actually, it is much more likely that your son overdosed and had a bad trip that caused lasting psychosis. This happens all the time with hallucinogens like THC and Psilocybin to perfectly healthy people.

        Secondly, I would like to tell all people without pharmaceutical/chemical knowledge and extensive drug experience to STAY THE F*** AWAY from synthetic cannabinoids. You WILL end up hurting yourself. 99% of bad reports I see are caused by user error. EXTREME CAUTION should be taken when taking research chemicals. Always have anxiolytic drugs on hand (xanax, klonopin) in case of overdose or panic attack. Start very small and always measure your doses with an accurate scale. Do this, and I guarantee you it will be almost impossible for you to screw anything up. Unfortunately people are idiots as evidenced by this comment thread and the proper precautions are not always taken. What results when that happens is what you see in the comments above. I’ve seen (and had) enough bad trips to know what I am talking about. In fact, I occasionally enjoy a good toke of synthetic ‘noids myself and find them to be very pleasant chemicals. I have never once experienced a bad trip on them. Don’t get me wrong, nothing beats THC but they are very handy when smoking is inconvenient/you need to avoid a drug test.

        However, I am not encouraging anyone to use these novel compounds. In addition, cannabis will not exert devastating side effects if you happen to get addicted like synthetic cannabinoids will. So just smoke weed! There is much less screw up potential.

  • Mar 5th 201121:03
    by ConcerneParent2

    Reply

    My son and his teenaged friends have been smoking this stuff. One got addicted and was smoking it 4-5 times a day. He is now in rehab. They think it is cool because I cannot be detected on a random drug test. We as parents feel helpless to stop them!

    • Oct 4th 201106:10
      by will

      Reply

      I am sorry for your family’s stress. He probably would have found some regular weed and and got paranoid too. CANABINOIDS, make you hungry,its the “munchies” and its caused by a dramatic increase in insulin. Like Grace Slick Said “feed your head”

      Drugs
      Right time right place right people
      COLLEGE

      • Jan 25th 201212:01
        by Joe

        Reply

        a dramatic increase in insulin…. man.

        You like making stuff up? marijuana doesnt effect insulin. at all. in any way. period. I guess you never have been in the right place at the right time to use drugs, have you?

        You can qualify poppycock statements like “its caused by a dramatic increase in insulin” with an “i think” or “it might be”

        But confidently reporting misinformation is pretty stupid. Its called bearing false witness, and its actually a sin.
        Do you feel smart now? What is the purpose in making stuff up like that? I could go on for hours about what a terrible dis service you do yourself and fellow pot smokers. You paint us all in a bad color. People like you make me sick. Gucking Foogle it. insulin and marijuana. ill save you the trouble. http://www.cannabismd.net/diabetes/

        thats the only thing remotely close to “marijuana increases insulin”

        Everybody look, and see, that this guy will is a mucking foron.

    • Oct 25th 201102:10
      by hopethishelps

      Reply

      maybe it isn’t the spice you should be worried about my friend used synthetic marijuana products for a long time before the laws came into affect and he never got addicted despite heavy use however he never bought the same brand twice in a row he never had problems with it but then he tried the bath salts once and he had tachycardia and mood swings and depression after only one use and it scared him away from all drugs it might be embarrassing to admit to a marijuana problem but after the stories about bath salts it would be like saying you were stupid enough to use meth and if it was just spice it probably isn’t a physical addiction but psychological addiction like someone eating fast food till they are risking major health problems just because someone isn’t physically addicted doesn’t mean they aren’t hooked and to everyone out there who say that spice isn’t risky its a drug of coarse it is i think people have the right to choose for themselves but they also have the right to run with scissors (not trying to say he wasn’t addicted or that spice didn’t do it just saying there might be other contributors)

  • Mar 6th 201118:03
    by jimmy79

    Reply

    i only wish they cared about bath salts as much (THAT STUFF DESTROYS YOU!!! )extremely cheap synthetic methamphetamine!!! keep u up high for a week only 35- 40 bucks !!!!!!!!!!!Halucinating high!! If u see kids doing that then worry!!

  • Mar 7th 201107:03
    by Diane S

    Reply

    I have custody of Grandson who is 16. He and his friends have been smoking K2. He has ADHD, Ausberger’s. I want to know what this looks like. Is there any indepth information. He is currently in the detention center because this drug made his aggresive. I understand someone over the age of 18 has to buy it. Please post more information. We as parents need to know where this originated from. Thank you.

  • Mar 7th 201107:03
    by David Kroll

    Reply

    @Brian – that’s a really good point. I had missed the fact that there’s no research exemption in the NC legislation. There are a good number of cannabinoid chemists and pharmacologists in the state. But doesn’t your DEA license trump the state regulation? (i.e., our lab doesn’t do work with controlled substances)

    @ConcernedParents, @DianeS – The field still has yet to determine whether these compounds are truly “addictive.” Clinical studies have lagged behind the basic science, as is almost always the case. As for what the products look like, they are quite diverse but are usually some sort of pulverized plant material sold in heat-sealed Mylar bags. Do a Google image search for “K2 Spice” and you will see examples.

    @jimmy79 – the MDPV compound in bath salts is the latest compound to be regulated by the state of North Carolina for the very reasons you describe. I should have a post on that in the next day or so.

    • Mar 3rd 201318:03
      by TomDamnDee

      Reply

      David you work at SBI Lab ??? Whats an accepted blood content (whole) level for being in other words how much thc is intoxicating? seems states arfe prosecuting DUI/DWI cases on fear alone as with thc theres no dialouge no standards no tests any content is automaticaly dui $3000 etc its appalling

  • Mar 8th 201116:03
    by MSc Org Chemist

    Reply

    These chemicals are widely available and it concerns me how many people see it as a marijuana substitute that doesn’t show up on drug tests.

    The long-term effects of these will not be known for decades and the continuous ban-discover-sell cycle will keep going and producing other exotic (and dangerous) chemicals. With the easy and unregulated sale on the internet it is only a matter of time before an incident like MPTP happens on a massive scale.

    There is a chemical with the desired effects and a good safety profile out there, and you don’t have to get it from a laboratory! (If you’re into that kind of thing)

    • Jan 3rd 201207:01
      by Cat

      Reply

      >There is a chemical with the desired effects and a good safety profile out there, and you don’t have to get it from a laboratory!

      What chemical is that?

  • Mar 10th 201120:03
    by zfdg

    Reply

    Sounds like we’ve got some bad parents here, blaming everyone but themselves …

  • Mar 12th 201111:03
    by User

    Reply

    I am a highly educated and successful business development executive with a Global Fortune 500 company who is not your typical drug user. I’ve been using these products for over a year and have had zero ill effects in all my experiences. My thoughts are these substances are simple – they are dangerous and anyone should be advised not to use them, the only reason I use them is because they mimic the effects of marijuana, but will not show up on a drug test, I can not lose my job because of them and am not fearful of the law when I have them in my possession. Sure its unwise buts it’s a risk I take because my perceived value of getting high outweighs my perceived risks. Kids and anyone that might be more susceptible to negative behavioral effects should not go anywhere near this stuff.

    For me it all comes down to our Governments misguided efforts protect us by banning substances like marijuana that have been used my millions and millions of people for thousands of years, have known effects and consequences. People will not stop trying to get high because authorities tell them not to, they will find a way, unfortunately this forces exploration into unknown substances with unknown effects.

    The government needs to legalize, but heavily mandate known safe substances like marijuana, and their will be zero demand for these designer drugs. In a peachy perfect world where everything works the way it’s planned, the DEA’s approach would work, but it is unrealistic. An underlying problem is that with self-propelling organizations like the DEA, it is always in their self-interest to scare the public in to increasing funds for their programs, which insures their jobs and careers are safe.

    Look at alcohol as the prime example – would their be less death, violence, abuses and many other problems if alcohol was banned… of course. But that was tried with a heavy hand in the prohibition, the effects were creating crime rings, a black market, more deaths due to “bathtub cocktails” etc… All these JWH compounds are the “bathtub cocktails” of the marijuana prohibition we are under now. Yes the world would be a better place if drugs did not exists, but they do, and the best way to cope is to regulate them and not ban them. I would not touch these JWH compounds if marijuana were legal. Look at alcohol is society today. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), use of alcohol is a leading risk factor for premature death and disability – worldwide alcohol causes 1.8 million deaths a year. That is a sad statistic, but because a substance has negative effects doesn’t mean banning it is the answer. And on the subject of negative effects, their are ZERO marijuana related deaths yearly. Lets take a step back and rationally think about that.

    I hate to hear stories of kids or others in mental institutions because of these drugs, but unfortunately it is human nature to want to blame and pin problems a substance and point to it as the only reason A, B and C happened – that I am afraid is unrealistic as well. In my experience with drugs they enhance or highlight attributes, if I am an angry, confused, and a mentally unstable person then they will emphasize and propel those attributes. However if I am a stable, successful driven person, who maybe wants to smoke a joint Friday night after a 60 hour work week, I find it relaxes me, lets me unwind and enjoy others company more.

    The point of this ramble is that these new drugs are being created because of current drug policy (which is a failure); mark my words that if marijuana was legal, these drugs would not exist or at least not be developed for commercial use. We should take a rational look at current policy and make some adjustments. Until then I’ll be on the look out for the next JWH legal compound or if that fails maybe I’ll go have a few beers, and we all know that has never had a negative repercussion.

    • Dec 31st 201100:12
      by Austin

      Reply

      Well said. I too have a successful career and have enjoyed incense regularly in the evenings without it causing any issues. However, had I had access to this when a teenager things might have been different. It is extremely strong compared to MJ, and I worry about the new chemicals they using as the DEA bans the ones that are most similar to the real thing.

  • Mar 15th 201116:03
    by CSM

    Reply

    is K2 illegal in North Carolina. My son ws suspended today for possesion and I need to know the law. Not having much luck on internet

  • Mar 15th 201118:03
    by David Kroll

    Reply

    CSM – The compounds in K2 are not yet illegal under North Carolina law – click here for the link to Senate Bill 9/House Bill 12 and print it out. The bill passed the State Senate but is still in committee in the House – hence, it is not yet law.

    I’m not exactly sure how the new federal ruling from the DEA is applied by states but if the K2 your son had contains other chemicals, it’s not being considered illegal.

    Disclaimer, as always: I am not a lawyer. You should seek legal advice if your son’s suspension is not overturned. Good luck. Nevertheless, I’d tell your son to steer clear of this stuff.

  • Mar 15th 201119:03
    by CSM

    Reply

    can anyone else confirm what Mr. Kroll wrote

    Thanks

  • Mar 21st 201122:03
    by RSDCRPS Patient

    Reply

    From what I understand from speaking with the merchants where I am in NC the ban goes into effect on April first. I do not agree with under age kids using spice. How are they buying it would be my first question as you must be eighteen to purchase. I have a neurological disease called reflex sympathetic dystrophy on the McGill pain scale more painful than bone cancer and there is no cure. There are certain JHW numbers that really help the burning neuropathic pain when even the strongest pain medications have failed. Now they are taking away the only thing that has given me back my mobility and enabled me to walk without excruciating pain and given me back some quality of life without having to do illegal drugs as NC does not have legalized medical marijuana. I dont think it should be banned. Taken away from the hands of underage kids yes< and as a parent you need to stay informed about whats out there and who your kids are hanging out with and where they are hanging out and what they are doing when they are "just hanging out" spend more time with your kids talk to them about the dangers of spice and designer drugs. If you dont talk to them someone else will and it will not be the right information.

  • Apr 5th 201111:04
    by educated teen boy

    Reply

    as kids we find ways to adapt to our peers and being in the 9th grade right now is hard to figure out what to be what to do. we are always told to stride for success but we are also told by fellow peers that we are less than them i have come to the agreement that thers bad stuff and good stuff but its a matter of perception as we see here most of these comments are about these kids who are older than me but they think its cool they may have been under pressure and snapped i to have done this but its worse when we get stripped of our dignty andthrown into the world with nothing but self dought ive seen the smartest and strongest person i know and because he refused he lost his friends he couldnt rely on anyone he graduated he had no connections and ended up commiting suicide and only his sister his brother and parents his only famly left went to his funeral theres a bad story in evry picture but its amatter of perception think about it

  • Jun 22nd 201111:06
    by Taking the edge off

    Reply

    I’ve been reading a lot of your stories and how they are sad. All these problems existed before drugs. I use the fakes so I don’t smoke the real stuff. I want a good job, period. Its easy to blame substitutes for the way your loved ones are acting. The truth is that they are probably aggressive and depressed with out drugs.

  • [...]  But manufacturers quickly reacted to the laws, and to avoid prosecution, came up with a different formulations for the synthetic ingredients which had a marijuana-like effect, but that were not [...]

  • Jun 23rd 201100:06
    by .

    Reply

    If your friends leave you for sticking to your convictions and not taking any of that garbage then they were never your friends to begin with. Middle school sucked for me when I went through and it probably did for a large number of other people, time has not changed this. Having “friends” in that one year does not justify potentially screwing up the rest of your life. Middle school sucks horribly, high school just sucks, though you will find college to be much better.
    Oh, and that bit about perception is a load of garbage! these synthetic drugs can kill you!

  • [...] DEA reported continued surveillance of products and their scheduling action that placed 5 of the more-common cannabimimetic compunds on Schedule I in early 2011. Interesting [...]

  • Jul 19th 201108:07
    by Bryan Zimmer

    Reply

    I can’t believe how optimistic we were back in the 70′s. We thought after the Ford Commission declared marijuana less dangerous than alcohol and marijuana, that the natural outcome has happened.

    Now, there are a bunch of prune-faced, morally bankrupt mobsters in Washington and other cities (e.g. St. Paul, MN). They are called the government. If you were wondering why your Social Security is vanishing and things are going downhill in general, take a look at the decision-makers.

    The government has no business trying to regulate my private behavior. The obscenity called congress will always try to yank away my freedoms and arrogate all power to itself.

    I am ashamed to be a citizen of the US, but Europe and even parts of Africa are getting on the prohibition bandwagon. South America is a bloody battlefield that the United States needs to train the thugs who run these banana-replublic dictatorships.

    I conclude that the US actually has no moral ground, but in light of it’s trafficking of Heroin in southeast Asia in the 60′s and 70′s, and the sale of cocaine to fund the Nicaraguan civil war in the 80′s, I propose we overthrow these assholes (the ones in Washington and their acolytes in the states), by force if necessary.

  • Jul 19th 201109:07
    by Bryan Zimmer

    Reply

    Pardon me, the Ford commission declared, after a study, that marijuana was less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco.

  • Jul 30th 201116:07
    by SimpleSolution

    Reply

    Legalize marijuana and all these synthetic, unsafe, copycat drugs will disappear overnight. Simple and cost-effective.

  • Sep 11th 201112:09
    by concerned parent 3

    Reply

    Those of you supporting this poison are to put it bluntly MORONS. is getting high worth your life? I think not, and if you do think its worth it, go suck on the barrel of a shotgun and help clean out the gene pool. My son was in a coma for several hours because of this garbage. it was the only thing in his system and his first time attempting this stuff. My son is 17 and means the world to me and I try and be involved in his life and help him make the right decisions. But because other kids at school are doing this he thought he would be “cool” to fit in and it almost killed him. Officers on site say had him and his friend (both had bad reactions to this stuff) not been helped immediately they would both be dead right now. So the people whom want to defend K2 and other “legal” drugs go on ahead and when your in a pine box as a rotting corpse I hope it was worth it. For those concerned and want to get this garbage off the streets I highly suggest writing your congressmen, Senators, governors, legislators, anyone you can think of in a position to help get these poisons outlawed. I would rather see natural not chemically grown marijuana made legal at least then maybe this synthetic crap that is killing people would be driven out of business. There are documented deaths, severe brain damage, and cases of it causing permanent mental instability. I almost lost my son and I do not want to see anyone else go thru the pain I had to. Or worse the pain of losing a child or loved one from this crap. “it wont happen to me or anyone I know” is Bull I thought that and It DID happen to MY son. PLEASE parents and concerned people we have a moral obligation to protect our children and families and friends from this or if need be from themselves if they are using it. And like I said if you think this stuff is ok do the world a favor and stop breeding stupidity and thin out the gene pool.

    • Oct 2nd 201116:10
      by Kim

      Reply

      My son is in a world of trouble from this drug, I would like to talk to you !! Can you please email me! Thanks another parent

      • Jun 15th 201303:06
        by Brian

        Reply

        Look keep up with what ur kids are doin and stop blamin everything in the world for problems. We are all goin to end up in a pine box so I’m going to live life to the fullest. All your kids are fat from burgers u shove down their throats and then get mad that i call em a fat ass and they get picked on but I hate to tell you lil Johnny is fat at 10 and will have diabetes and blood pressure problems at twenty because mom thought that burger was better than that smoke. news flash everything we do in our daily lives is killing us! If u don’t want ur kids on it try been a better parent but some ppl like it and will use it and shouldn’t be looked down on cause ur son was Tryin to fit in cause u got him fat before high school mom

    • Oct 8th 201120:10
      by Rational

      Reply

      So by synthetics being banned, do you believe then, and only then, your son will be “safe” and will never try any illegal drugs. The fact that he never did it before, which he may have been scared to say he had before, Means he overdid it, just as I did at 14 yrs old with hard liquor and my friends parents’ liquor cabinet. I was unconscious for 6 hrs., and that’s a “legal” drug. You may want to place your aggression on something else, like communication and openess about what your son is doing and who he’s with. Don’t be that naive, you know blaming the K2 is an easy scapegoat.

    • Jan 16th 201221:01
      by jene

      Reply

      Help!
      My son just had a psychotic break and is now in the mental hospital still suffering effects from spice. It has only been 2 day but I need to know what the future holds.
      Please help

      • Mar 27th 201221:03
        by echo

        Reply

        Alright, I have been scanning forums over the last several weeks, both for my personal situation, and to possibly shed some light on someone elses situation, from someone with more then a little experience with synthetic cannabinoids, as well as a pretty wide list of illegal and/or controlled substances.

        First I would like to start by saying that I do not agree the government should control what goes into our bodies on a private level. My synthetic cannabinoid use can be summed up as a personal attempt to ascertain the personal short term risks, side effects and/or withdrawal effects of different store bought herbal blends, as well as some stints ingesting lab tested, 99.9% pure cannabinoid compounds. This test was out of pure curiosity I may add!!!

        I wan’t to strongly urge that these synthetic cannabinoids are NOT a replacement for recreational, daily marijuana use. These compounds are drugs, and although very similar to structure and effect as THC, they lack all of the other natural cannabinoids found in the “real deal”. One these natural occuring compounds is actually what the THC degenerates into on a growing Cannabis plant, CBD or Cannibidiol. The Cannibidiol’s main purpose on a fully matured, fully flowered plant is to keep the THC from causing the animals that would pollinate the plants, from getting extreme psychoactive effects and hallucinations, that would in turn keep them from successfully pollinating other flowering plants.

        Keeping this in mind, when you smoke natural cannabis, you are getting both THC and CBD and therefor experience little to no psychosis, anxiety, or derealization(this of course differs on a case to case basis, and can be affected by latent schizophrenia).

        During my herbal incense use I would like to add that I was not using any real cannabis, nor using any other mind altering substances(in fact I stopped drinking a few days after my initial smoking of the synthetics as I felt amazing and needed no other head changes). I smoked a range of products over following months, including “Mary Janes Herbal Blend”, “Seedless”, “Smoking Camel”, “G6″, “Legal Devil”, “Demons Breath”, “Nugz” as well as a couple of other local brands, mostly all of which these products I suspect to contain AM-2201 due to their extremely low prices, and extreme, bordering unpleasant effects(AM-2201 is active at a much lower dose then most cannabinoids while costing less then most of the others commonly used).

        I found brand that gave effects lasting 2-4 hours with very calming effects, unlike many of the other products I had tried, but eventually this EXPENSIVE brand became a bit expensive to be regularly buying, so I would fill in with the cheaper local brands (which I later found to be containing the AM-2201). It didn’t take long smoking these other blends with the stronger, less relaxing, more psychoactive compounds in them, before I noticed obvious changes in my demeanor and facial mannerisms. I can sum this up with very mild anxiety, which was very obviously directly related to the amount and frequency smoked.

        This mild anxiety soon turned into a very interesting mindstate which I was having trouble explaining or describing, as I almost felt like I was in a dream most days. This at first was far from unpleasant as i felt a good break from monotonous life, but with more consumption, this false sense of derealization quickly faded into a pure disconnect of mind conscious mind and body. I would have instance where I was projecting outside my body and watching myself move very clumsily due to muscle fatigue. My arms didn’t feel like my arms. When looking in the mirror, I would see an absolutely shattered self image of myself.

        For obvious reasons, at this point I stopped all intake and in a anxious rage, threw away every last jar and half joint into the trash. The next few days were surreal to say the least. I felt very little withdrawal effects, and almost no urge to smoke again, just constant derealization and depersonalization caused by intense anxiety, and the occasional mild panic attack(I note the withdrawal comment as my body and mind were so disgusted and confused with what was happening that I almost a recoil from consuming more, like touching hot fire).

        I had been reading about derealization and depersonalization for the weeks coming into the feelings, knowing that they were common side effects, as well as withdrawal effects, and therefor was not in fear that I was going to die, or that I was infected by some parasite as many report. I had also read about the use of the naturally occuring CBD cannabinoid to relieve the anxious and psychotic side effects, such as it would have done with THC in the real Cannabis plant.

        Knowing this, I set out on a mission to find the nastiest bag of ditch weed I could find(low in THC, high in CBD). A couple of Juans later, I had found my bag and I set home to see if I could regain some semblance of sanity back. Low and behold, the first night the effects were SO greatly reduced, my self image was nearly restored, and my skin sensitivity was back to a reasonable level. The next couple days I felt better every day, and after a week enough of the CBD has worked it’s way into my fat cells that I feel no psychosis, and almost no anxiety.

        SO THERE IT IS!!!! unfortunately our government deems it illegal and a danger to public health!!!!

        Anyways parents if your kids think they are going crazy, THEY AREN’T GOING CRAZY, crazy people don’t think that they are crazy. Sane people with extreme and crippling anxiety think they are going crazy, and the doctors will not be able to help as they are not equipped to do the bidding of nature, as this post clearly shows. All the doctors will do is treat the symptoms, probably with a slew of other dangerous and addictive chemicals, treating for schizophrenia and other misdiagnosed disorders.

        Long live FREE THINKING, don’t believe everything your told, DO SOME GODDAMN RESEARCH. You clearly are not fit to parent a child in this day and age if you can’t type this shit into google search bar and find out how to fix your child for fucks sake….

  • Sep 16th 201111:09
    by June

    Reply

    I dont know what all is in it but I will tell anyone I would not recomend smoking it as I have a boyfriend that tryed it last night for his first time just took a couple hits not long after he got very pail and started shaking next thing ya know he was haveing halusinations and convations like a siezer barely breathing almost swallowing his tounge and dry heeving. I called 911 watching all of this was the worst thing i have had to see; he was going to drive like this and I am so glad I stopped him as it could have been tragic. They hooked him to an IV; took 8 tubes of blood an EKG and heeart moniter and resporater. I feel that someone would be stupid to try it. For whoever came up with it I would like to say thank you; for the heartache and stress; I think their should be a protest to take this of the shelves.

    • Oct 8th 201120:10
      by Rational

      Reply

      Why is everyone on here saying the same sob story. Your boyfriend wanted to get F##D up, but he chose to overdo, instead of testing, something he had no clue about. Why do you think people die from heroin everyday. Are they buying it at the store? NO, making it illegal will put money in violent hands, and then your BF can OD and make some asshole ALOT of money, well done!

    • Jan 28th 201212:01
      by john

      Reply

      O my god. Honestly i used to smoke this all the time an it never bothered. 2 weeks ago i took one hit and i lost all bearing on the world. I stared into space and my tongue also went numb. My throat closed up bcuz i was swallowing my tongue. My friends had to hold my tongue so i could breath while i sat in a icecold shower for 2 hours

  • Sep 16th 201118:09
    by Bookwoman44

    Reply

    Look at the info on Redwood Labratories or NMS (National Medical Services). These are forensic toxicology labs and they can test for Bath Salts, Spice, salvia etc. These are new tests and they are accurate.

  • Sep 21st 201119:09
    by Clued-in, unconcerned parent

    Reply

    For those concerned parents, perhaps it is your own children who should be thinned from the gene pool – packages for this material specifically state that it is not for human consumption, as well as “bath salts”. My kids have the brains to be aware of what actually hurts them and what actually doesn’t, mainly because I never neglect to tell them *WHY* I have rules, in terms of things they can understand. Whether the contents of these products are psychoactive or not is immaterial, because the instant someone inhales concentrated smoke they are abusing the product. This is like someone intentionally taking too much cough syrup, or intentionally breathing the contents of aerosol computer duster: unsafe, stupid, and avoidable with the application of literacy.

    Additionally, the only reason there is a market for these “legal herbs” is because the much safer herb they are meant to replace is still illegal. I urge parents to adopt my safe drug policy. Since I cannot completely stop my 18 y.o. son and 17 y.o. daughter from experimenting with altered states of consciousness (and in doing so I would be hypocritical), instead I have been honest and up-front about drugs. As a result, my children practice safety with regard to drug use: never high while driving, never high at school or work, never allowed to hang out before homework is done, and I always must know where they are when hanging out. We have also agreed that any legal trouble they get into with drugs (including underage drinking – alcohol is a drug, too) is their fault and responsibility and I shall not help them.

    Both of my children are A and B students; my daughter is active in debate and the academic decathalon, and has won several awards. More than twice a week I talk with each of them while they are high, and I am man enough not to judge them lowly for something I have also done; if anything I enjoy being around them when they are happy, high or not.

    Parents: I URGE YOU TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR KIDS ABOUT DRUGS! Some are physically dangerous (like incense labeled “not for human consumption”), others bear only legal consequences. Blindly adopting the propaganda of the drug war – and serving its racially-driven cause by scorning your children’s curiosity – is what is really damaging your family.

  • Oct 2nd 201104:10
    by Rastus

    Reply

    I concur w/ SimpleSolution’s comment: Legalize marijuana, which has been used safely as a recreational drug for a VERY long time, & people won’t be driven to use untested synthetic chemicals to get the same effect. As for all the parental hysteria on display in these comments: People, GET A GRIP…Take responsibility for parenting your stupid kids. If I, as an adult, wish to purchase a legally-available chemical to get high, that’s my right. Teach your kids HOW to get high SAFELY, instead of whining about the need for a more intrusive police state to save your kids from their natural inclinations. Newsflash: they’re gonna get high, no matter how much you preach to the contrary. If we’d stop being hypocrites about drugs (& alcohol & sex) & simply provide info & advice on best practices, then kids could experiment & move on, w/ a fewer harmful consequences.

    PS I smoke old fashioned marijuana occassionally, for recreational purposes. I tried the first version of K2 out of curiosity & found it to be quite enjoyable, as if one particularly nice “note” of the marijuana high had been isolated: the heady, mind-expanding, flow-of-thoughts note that I enjoy, minus any dopiness or enervation. Yeah, I guess that state of mind might lead an inexperienced smoker down a rabbit-hole of paranoid ideation. Re the more expansive negative syndromes resulting in ER visits: Learn some basic rules of harm reduction before you go playing around w/ drugs! When I read that someone smoked “3 or 4 bowls” of K2 or Spice, then had a psychotic reaction…well, #1: that’s just plain idiotic behavior…& I truly resent that MY right to try this stuff responsibly must be restricted on behalf of safekeeping for MORONIC CHILDREN (of any age)!!

    • Oct 10th 201118:10
      by JBK@12

      Reply

      Wow Rastus, you must be either gay or have had the worst parents ever as a youth. Everyone knows that the best of kids, no matter how well they were raised and taught will have to deal with pressure from their friends and society. The best parents in the world can’t be with their kids when someone they like or think is cool asks them to try something with them. People young and old mess up. I believe these parents that their kid never did anything before this, but since any senior can get it for them, it is tempting for them to try it, besides according to everyone it is legal and safe. So if a kid that never did drugs tries this shit because it’s there and easy to get ends up in a coma it’s the parents fault for being bad parents? You are a moron to think that way. I hope to god you never have children. I wonder how good your kids would turn out having you for a parent. And all the other morons that wrote similar things on here, you sound like your all drug addicts that only think about getting high and nothing else, so you probably won’t have kids anyway which is a blessing to all. I have smoked MJ forever and I am 47 years old. I was a model and a tip photographer in New York for many years. I am now a reputable Interior Designer and Real Estate mogul and I still do. I was brought up the “right way” with all the education, warnings, advice, and everything else and it worked, I have never gotten in trouble for doing it. But, that being said, I have been smoking for over 30 years! It is very sad to see how cold and careless people can be to other people’s problems. These parents are telling you their kids ended up in a coma after doing this shit! What makes you so grand and knowledgeable that you know it was the parents wrong parenting and not what they are telling you??

      • Nov 20th 201108:11
        by tired

        Reply

        well this is the definition of hypocrisy (It is very sad to see how cold and careless people can be to other people’s problems)
        (you must be either gay or have had the worst parents ever as a youth) there is no kind of person more cruel and insensitive than a homophobe.

    • Oct 17th 201117:10
      by mkp

      Reply

      I totally agree with rastus. Educate children and teens on the reality of life and not try to sterilize it with the stupid assumption that your child is never going to try any drugs or alcohol. If marijuana was legal, then we wouldn’t have a problem with all of the fake products out there. And by the way, I educated my children and didn’t FORBID them to try new things. Pure common sense shows that teens will be teens, and they react better when they are educated and not policed. And, by the way, they were also on the A or B honor roll at school. They smoked marijuana with friends whenever the chance presented itself (until the school started drug testing). Now they smoke this other stuff on the market and have had no adverse reactions. The main reason behind this was, they tested the waters before taking a huge plunge and overdoing it. Not everything is for everyone. Some people are allergic to nuts, but your not going to go out and remove all of the nuts from the market are you. Alcohol and cigarettes and PRESCRIPTION drugs have done their fair share of killing some very dear family members and friends. If you want to keep marijuana illegal, then I think that these 2 should be illegal also. Just my two cents worth.

  • Oct 2nd 201116:10
    by Kim

    Reply

    Please any parents that have had any children who have had a very bad reaction to this drug, please contact me, I need more info. to help my son, he is in a world of trouble and I need help, behind this K-2 this is a dangerous deadly drug!! and it needs to be stopped!!

    • May 12th 201322:05
      by Just saying...

      Reply

      All drugs are potentially dangerous, and education before consumption should always be a prerequisite. I understand that’s too late this time, and I’m sorry your son had a bad reaction. K-2 has had many different chemical cocktails laced onto plant material, and there’s no way to know for sure what chemicals were in it. However, assuming that the Chemicals in the spice your son smoked are actually synthetic cannabinoids, any unknown or inactive mental disorders can be exacerbated. After the chemicals leave the body, he may fully recover. However, the reality is that those symptoms might be more present in his day-to-day life. Using k-2 is a risk, because you can overdose by taking one too many hits. It is simply an assumption and nothing more, but I think your son could have possibly overdosed. Of course, ODing on anything is bad, but be thankful it was only a cannabinoids. If your son had instead used the bath salts people had been mentioning, he may no longer be here. Luckily, that’s not the case. I believe your son will be physically okay sooner than mentally, but if you give him your love, some space, and some time, he should be able to fully recooperate. I do not believe this was your fault, I believe that he was simply smoking this stuff like he would weed, and you just can’t do that with this stuff because its so much more potent. But this is still no more or less dangerous than other legal or illegal drugs, everybody reacts differently to every chemical, and that unfortunately means there’s no way to tell if you are one of the people who will react negatively to it, until its too late. If he does end up smoking again, make sure he understands that he should smoke the smallest amount needed to get an effect, ’cause you can always smoke more, but you can never smoke less

  • Oct 2nd 201116:10
    by Kim

    Reply

    Please any parents that have had any children who have had a very bad reaction to this drug, please contact me, I need more info. to help my son, he is in a world of trouble and I need help, behind this K-2 this is a dangerous deadly drug!! and it needs to be stopped!! please contact me at ((www.))kim.1213@yahoo

  • Oct 9th 201115:10
    by Brian Morrisseau

    Reply

    This is all crazy..There is a perfectly harmless drug called marijuanna that is illegal only to feed the drug cartells and our goverment needs for unreported dollars. Remember the Iran contra affiar (cooperative drug money used to fund cohort activitys) Anyways keep drinking your beer and vodka and that pack of smokes…a perfectly legal way to distroy your health and your family or maybe its time to wake up america and consider the facts. Half of the people in jail are there because of drug violations…These are normal people that had bad luck.At least some states allow medical use for pot and the movement to legalise is progressing.The real thing is much preferred to the copycat drugs by consumers every where.It is easy to blame a substance for abuse but the reality is much more difficult to accept and that is that there will always be certain people that cant use any kind of drug that alters mood and they need help and there drug abuse is a cry for that help and arresting them is definately not the answer

  • Oct 10th 201110:10
    by Vic

    Reply

    i’m sorry but i’ve smoked these jwh for a little over a year (our place of business gets tons of free samples as we are a smoke shop) and with 5 different employees we’ve never had a single incident as described in any of these stories?? are you sure we’re talking about the same thing?? i mean we’ve smoke like at least 3 grams per person in one sitting and i think the most it’s lasted was like what? maybe an hour and 1/2? comas? seizures? MENTAL INSTITUTIONS??? I have to agree with other people on this site, there must of been something else there ( if these stories are even true ). I mean the ONLY thing that has ever happened to me was a little headache from smoking a little too much of it….nothing Ibuprofen cant handle….i think theres some tall tales going around the republican pool…

  • Nov 7th 201102:11
    by ZombieKiller

    Reply

    FACT It causes brain damage. Please protect our kids from this dangerous drug. The most common response to anyone that got hurt using this is, “there must of been something wrong with them in the first place”. For those of you who think you know it all, please think twice. Just the fact that you use this stuff tells me you arn’t so smart. Most kids don’t know any better and are good people. Please stop spreading rumors that this POISON is safe.

  • Nov 13th 201123:11
    by Op107

    Reply

    **”My son smoked K2 or Spice – laced with variations of JWH-xxx -018, -073, -250, -081 and -372 from purchases of products being sold in NC prior to the ban and is NOW in a psych hospital dealing with the resulting anxiety attacks, rapid heartbeat, agression, anger, depression etc. He is being treated as a bipolar/schizophrenic person heavily sedated and on suicide watch, when previously he had only normal 20-year old behavioral indications.

    GET THIS STUFF OF THE STREET – IT IS NOT SOMETHING ANYONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH – OR WATCH SOMEONE GO THROUGH!”**

    Oh yea sure because we see where prohibition of, and banning the sale of these substances gets us. Look at the current situation in juarez mexico since Calderon stepped up on catching mexican traffickers and tackling the cartels themselves. The issue isn’t the drugs its the people who use them. I have smoked these synthetic cannabinoids in pure form and they have never caused me to go insane, they are just chemicals, like thc, that attach to cannabinoid receptors in the brain. Some of them have been shown to reduce cancer growths etc…
    These cannabiniods are medicines with potential to treat inflammation, pain. depression, insomnia, etc.
    As you sit here and blame this one incidence of your son freaking out and having exacerbated symptoms of a probably congenital predisposition to anxiety, schizophrenia; think about the pharmaceutical alternatives which are also highly addictive (physical addiction from SSRIs) and some very toxic (acetaminophen aka tylenol triples the risk of blood cancer & ruins your liver, NSAIDs have risk of heart compliications due to toxicity)
    The pharmaceutical industries crusade against recreational drug use and medical use of illicit drugs to hide the fact that the game they play is that of being a legal cartel who competes with mexican cartels, and even though their product is accepted as somehow different than illegal drugs and alcohol (they arent, most illegal drugs were recognized as over the counter pharmaceuticals prior to 1914) their products kill more than their counterpart, the cartels.

    Show me there exists a disparity between giving some 7 year old kid amphetamine (Adderall, Dexedrine) to medicate him yet on the other hand its illegal to consume said drug at a party at the same dosages as a 7 year old? Seems to me that drugs are only illegal to create a monopolized drug market through the medical profession & their pharmaceutical suppliers/entrepeneurial buddies.

  • Nov 21st 201103:11
    by joe

    Reply

    Concerned parent is a fucking liar. Ive been consuming pure synthetic chemicals daily for the past 3 years and i can say that no one has died from this stuff. Not a single autopsy report. Not a single morgue report. Not a single case of anyone dying from these chemicals period. Its all speculation with not a single fucking document to back up any claims. I sell massive amounts of incense and also consume massive amounts as deemed necessary in order to sell to the public. Im a test dummy and also very wealthy because of it. I use more than anyone could handle in order to determine the toxicity of the product. Im not gonna go into my clinical studies for that would take pages but rest assured short term this stuff is pretty much harmless.

    • Feb 19th 201200:02
      by Cam

      Reply

      No one has died from it? All I can,say t that is.. HA. If you think that, you’re clearly oblivious.
      SPICE KILLS.
      It messed me up.
      nerve to tell me itdidn’t

    • Feb 23rd 201216:02
      by Delurking

      Reply

      I hope you’ll read my comment below…You are profiting off of destroying other lives.

  • Nov 24th 201100:11
    by mylo

    Reply

    so this stuff is legal but plain marijuana isn’t? marijuana never made anyone healthy suicidal or aggressive. even then, alcohol (the defense for most drugs) causes the same symptoms in normal people (psychiatric disorders, addiciton, brain damage, etc.)

  • Dec 6th 201116:12
    by Po Po

    Reply

    Joe, you make Cheech look like a grad student! I’m holding a toxicology report for a 17 year old female that my office sent to the morgue this summer.
    The only chemicals in her system were JWH-018, JWH-073, and AM-2201. Put the game controller down, get a job, put the bong down, and move out of your mom’s house!

  • Dec 21st 201117:12
    by Incense Seller

    Reply

    drugs of all types are unsafe, there is no such thing as a safe drug, that being said, we should not even have pharmacies that sell drugs of any type right?

    all drugs have side effects, and can be abused.

    tobacco and alcohol kills millions and its alive and well, why? because the government can make money from them.

    synthetic cannibinoids are taking money away from the probation departments across the country and that’s all our communist government cares about!

    let people make their own decisions regarding their own bodies and personal lives, if you don’t want to use drugs then don’t and if you do, more power to ya!

    I think our government has more important things to discuss than this.

  • Dec 22nd 201106:12
    by Trip2moon

    Reply

    All the sensationalized stories people keep posting are propaganda.. If that isnt obvious then nothing is. Probably DEA

    • Dec 22nd 201106:12
      by David Kroll

      Reply

      Actually, not. I’ve been able to verify some of these stories by matching IP addresses with news stories and the few commenters who’ve responded to me personally. It’s clear to me after writing about these products for two years that they carry a high acute health risk.

  • Dec 29th 201118:12
    by JimmyJohn

    Reply

    I used to be an active marijuana user and when the synthetic stuff became available I was stoked. I loved the high when I was involved with the stuff for 6 or so months. This stuff had some pretty scary side effects which is why I decided to quit. My digestive system was having severe problems, every thing I ate quickly came out. My joints had issues, I suffered from intense depressive symptoms. I hadn’t taken anything else. It took me about a year to have a level head again. There is no doubt in my mind that this substance can cause health issues in certain people. I have witnessed several people flip out of control when on the stuff and have no doubt in my mind that it can cause psychotic issues in some people.

    The people arguing that “it must be something else” are wrong. Just because you deal with the substance just fine doesn’t mean you can project it onto everybody else. Some people don’t have side effects at all others DO. It was my poor decisions and many others to get involved in the stuff, but that doesn’t mean that this substance doesn’t cause serious side effects. I love how these morons defending this offer a bunch of hypothetical situations: “it could have been this or that because JWH doesn’t cause these symptoms…and “there’s no evidence…” There are plenty of documented hospital visits. While some have mixed other substances with it there are others who only didn’t the synthetic compound. I personally can state that this stuff caused some serious issues with me and I didn’t take anything else at the time. I was lucky enough to pick myself up and get over the stuff.

  • Jan 3rd 201214:01
    by Torrid

    Reply

    Thanks to our extremely unorganised, uneducated, and unethical government I have no real recourse to solve my very unpleasant and in no way deserve to be suffering because some people blame synthetic drugs for all that is evil and dangerous…I was finally diagnosed with ADHD at 26 I’m now 27. And because of their ridiculous ban everything hootenanny, I’ve not been able to get medication that hasn’t been stripped of what makes it…errr, WORK, i was prescribed adderall right when the original bath salts were being banned and any bio or pharmologically similar compound anything that looked smelled acted like had any resemblance and on and on the ban that ,oops we forgot there are quite a few people out there who take prescription amphetamines , o well, …well FUCK THIS! I have been suffering and tormented by this affliction it is quite real and can be very debilating, not to mention all the zillions of drugs including lots of benzodiazepines, almost every anti depressant anti psychotics the list goes on for miles and the horrible side effects that have ravaged my body and mind and caused me to nearly die, well I tried bath salts…and I was able to use it a few times a day just like my other meds, in fact I was nearly off of the benzos the antidepressant and I stopped using alcohol to calm my nerves and other issues I deal with because of my illness , i realized that while everyone around me that did it got super wound up or they would be idiots and do so much that they were basically insane but I was calmer, I finally felt a sense of contentment for the first time and it sometimes made me drowsy especially when I used it close to the time I would go to sleep, it helped me sleep, I didn’t have the endless intrusive thoughts that at night when I lie down become quite dark as I’ve experienced much tragedy and even been harassed to very extreme lengths by two men one was my fiancé who basically went into a psychosis and became clinically psychotic paranoid and violent. This happened after he smoked a lot of real weed and did some bath salts, but I don’t blame weed or salts, he basically went crazy from an underlying mental disorder, a lot of very well ignored and hidden trauma-sexual abuse from the age of 5 to about 9 or10 ans it all came pouring out one night, it was terrible, and I hate it but I know enough to not blame his drug use. It exacerbated the issue and he could have done other stuff that day and not have remembered or lied, but he’s not living a complete lie anymore and hiding his secret problem of having paranoid thoughts, that interfered with his life! I could tell another sob story of my best friends overdose from heroin and make the same point some of u have. All drugs can carry a degree of risk, but drugs are drugs are drugs they aren’t scapegoats, their not alive and able to jump into or up your whatever without u knowing! The point of it all for me anyway is, what happened to our freedom, why are people’s heads so fucking far up their asses! Why are people like me with add or in my case who have finally figured out what is actually going to help and so I get a doctor jump through all kinds of hoops only to be screwed because now the meds I need are stripped of one of the most important components. This is what sucks I’m totally fed up with all this bullshit!

  • Jan 7th 201217:01
    by Adrienne

    Reply

    So i have been researching and finding all i can about synthetics. Im so sorry to those parents that have children suffering the effects of this stuff. My story is more personal. I smoked for several months and thought i was fine was the effects similar to marijuana? Im my opinion it was not at all. I have had several medical problems and was hidling the fact i smoked spice to my doctors. I was continuously getting worse. Muscle Spams depression nasea vomitting. weight loss ext. ext. i stoped smoking for three weeks and honestly can say i havnt felt better since. my friend got taken to the er after an overdose btw 3 hits and he suffered from kidney failure. maybe the stuff that was banned wasnt as bad but the fact is this bad stuff is everywhere and very little are acknoledging it. Those that have not suffered the bad side effects and continue smoking because its not happening to you have you thought of the long term effects that we dont even know yet because their hasnt been enough time to find out. you keep smoking that stuff whats to say in a few years you dont come up with cancer? After witnessing and experiencing this i find it absolutly ludacris that people are trying to blame the parents of this and trying to find every excuse other than whats right in front of our faces. Some packets you smoke may not do anything but intended then the next its lethal. Why take that chance? Why let your kids take that chance?

  • Jan 23rd 201223:01
    by Experienced User

    Reply

    I have smoked marijuana for approximately 20 years. I decided to try an herbal incense blend as a legal alternative to marijuana as I was looking for a job so I could pass drug tests. Initially, I found the herbal incense to give a very similar result as that of marijuana. In fact, the herbal incense actually felt cleaner and safer. Although the effects did not last as long, it got the job done. For the last year I switched from smoking marijuana to smoking JWH-018 and JWH-073 herbal blends. I was making my own herbal blend using Marshmallow Leaf and a combination of pure JWH-018 and JWH-073 compounds. I had it down to a science. I started making it for friends who really liked my blend and were also worried about drug testing. After smoking the herbal blend daily for about a year, I now have pain in my back and in pretty much all of my joints. When I try to exercise, my joints are easily aggravated. My neck and the base of my skull started hurting a little bit about 3 months ago and have progressively gotten worse over time as I continued to smoke the herbal blend. My friends have reported similar problems. I’m pretty sure I almost had a stroke a few times but was able to calm myself down enough to prevent a full on stroke. I stopped smoking the herbal blend about 2 months ago and I have now gone to the doctor and had x-rays and an MRI done. The results were “arthritic changes” in my cervical vertebrae. I am now seeing a chiropractor and will be taking a whole-food derived bone & joint supplement in hopes that my body will be able to regenerate cartilage in my joints and help rebuild my bone density. If marijuana were legal I would never have even bothered with trying herbal incense. For about two weeks after stopping the herbal incense I was extremely unbalanced emotionally and I was experiencing acute anxiety. I would not suggest using these herbal incense blends to anyone now that I have gone through what I have and experienced first hand the effects of long term usage. If you have to smoke something go find some marijuana on the street and if you are trying to find a job be responsible and stop smoking all together. The truth is no one needs either marijuana or herbal incense to get by in life. Try some exercise.. do some yoga.. meditate.. stop abusing chemicals and destroying your body. Substance abuse does not make your problems go away. Man up and face your problems if you want them to go away… don’t hide behind substance abuse. It will only make your problems worse, destroy your health, and you will never be happy. Life is worth living even in the hardest of times.. so why not do all you can to make the best of it? If you are reading this and thinking.. “whatever loser, I’m smoking a joint.” I don’t have a problem with smoking weed or drinking alcohol or using drugs.. the problem is lack of moderation. The reason stuff like herbal incense and marijuana are illegal is because people abuse it and end up in the hospital with parents freaking out calling lawmakers and crying about their poor innocent kid who got involved with the wrong crowd and started using this or that drug blah blah blah. Stop abusing substances and they won’t be made illegal.. plain and simple. Be responsible!

  • Feb 1st 201223:02
    by Mel Rose

    Reply

    I need to correct some of you first of all blaming the parents for their kid getting hands on this and trying it come on! I am a grown woman my husband is on parole so he decided after talking to his good ol friends (NOT)to give this a try it is horrible it is like being married to a heroin junkie on a nod its addictive and its dangerous I decided I want to see what in the world is this about I took 1 hit of ko and ended up in the emergency room ! I was feeling like I was having a heart attack I had anxiety my heart rate was in sane , This stuff was the scariest thing I have ever experienced I smoke marijuana for Chronic pain and it is not even close when I was on oxy contin it was more like that I kicked it cold turkey which is not a good idea for any one you can die. This ko is just like it I was prescribed 4 oxy a day and 4 10 m perc for my pain if ko was the only thing to subdue it oh hell no over 500 dollars a month goes out of this house ! Now its time for me to go out of this house I dont want to live with some one who has no response and hunched over all night like strung out !

  • Feb 1st 201223:02
    by Mel Rose

    Reply

    @ Joe your full of shit! and I am sure you have made millions being some ones gunea pig good luck with that! My husband cant keep food down he shits all the time he wobbles like a weeble sometimes he is so high from the shit i pray he falls over and bangs his head for being so stupid people are having kifney failure liver failure mental problems anxiety all the time Its like the ctack cant just smoke a bowl its one after another all night long every night This shit needs to be banned and whoever made it I would love to meet them in an alley! My husband is addicted to the shit it might as well be crack coke meth whatever I hope they prosecute ever yone who sells the shiot and if so be it my husband for being so fucking stupid like the rest of you fools chasing a high good luck with your synthetic ass shit try counseling for your problems obviously your ways are not working ur the only one who thinks its awesome!

  • Feb 5th 201223:02
    by WNKeith

    Reply

    WEED smoker here for 30 years.

    I tried that herbal incense/potpourri just one time and it was the worst 2 hours of my life.

    I had rapid heart beat and thought I was gonna die.

    Never ever again will I buy that crap.

    I’m sticking to real weed.

    BE SAFE MAN

    • Feb 27th 201217:02
      by Josie Ramirez

      Reply

      yikes…at this hour i tried for first time! me too sticking with rreal marijuana

  • Feb 23rd 201216:02
    by Delurking

    Reply

    Just wanted to pipe in here as another concerned adult who wound up here because a young friend of mine is also being committed to a psychiatric hospital after using this junk. She has been psychotic for 6 straight days–strapped to a hospital bed, stripping naked, degrading herself and believing she is God. It is not ‘cool’ or harmless.

    It is true that this may have simply unleased underlying mental illness in her…but it WAS NOT evident before. Her behavior took a COMPLETE turn as a result of this junk and the Dr. informed us a few hours ago that it is likely permanent.

    • Aug 10th 201203:08
      by Brandon

      Reply

      I’m so very very sorry to hear that this has happened to the victim, you and her loved ones. I’ve had a very similar experience. My friend who is a grad student was into spice but said he stopped smoking it when it was made illegal. About the same time his ex came into town and caused more stress. We found him at his house yelling at her saying that he was god and she was the devil. Apparently he hadn’t slept in 5 days. We took him to the psychiatric emergency who released him even after he said he was suicidal and felt he was going to hurt someone! Took care of him for about 24 hrs but he was clearly suicidal and delusional saying he met god and a bunch of other nonsense. The next day he got much worse and became violent with me. He almost ran away a few times but I was lucky to get him into the doors of the psychiatric emergency room again. (Thank you mental health first aid training!) He was taken in and then broke a door. Now he’s been in there for 5 full days with no signs of recovery. He started an antipsychotic but we are still waiting for him to “come back”. Doc said it might be permanent but isn’t sure. I’ve read that some people had this last even a month! He has no family history of mental illness. I think this had to do with the spice though. It is so sad to see this. Maybe he did have an underlying mental illness but just never showed signs… I don’t know. It’s terrifying. I’m glad it’s illegal now but I hope more is done to prevent this. Thank you for sharing. I hope she gets better soon!

  • Feb 25th 201216:02
    by ashley

    Reply

    I just found this blog today. I will post more details of my friends and my own experiences with spice later. I will say that anyone defending this crap is only fooling themselves. I have to go visit a friend in the hospital tonight because he has pnuemonia. I think that this spice is what set it in motion. As I said I will post more later in the hopes that it may help someone else thinking of smoking this stuff.

  • Feb 25th 201222:02
    by ashley

    Reply

    O.K. so I am back from the hospital visiting my friend and I wanted to add some of our experiences with spice. First time I smoked it I did it by myself. It was Mr. Nice Guy. I had been a smoker of the real stuff for over thiry years, so I took three hits of MNG within minutes of each other. I was online doing my normal activities, when all of a sudden I thought I need to get off of here i feel a little weird. The next thing I knew I was having trouble breathing and couldn’t see very well. My heart felt as if it would beat out of my chest. I had prior experience with other mind altering drugs,and calmed myself from the growing paranoia I was feeling. I couldn’t hardly walk, but went back into my den and laid down. I felt my body jerking on the inside and moving involuntarily. I once again decided to enjoy it as best I could and imagined myself on a roller coaster. I could feel all of the hills and jerks side to side. All of a sudden the coaster stopped and I started to come back to reality. It became more of a buzz I could handle, and I sort of enjoyed the rest. You would think an experience like that would keep you away from it forever, but that is not the way it happened. I decided that I had smoked too much at once, and told a friend about it. He wanted to try it so several days later we did. We were cautious to only smoke a couple hits, and it seemed like a good less expensive alternative to the illegal marijuana. Well it became more and more of a habit,and in reality was more costly than mj. After the ban I still smoked other typed of spice with the new chemicals. Super Kush was the most frequent purchase. I don’t want to draw this out too long, but after a couple of months I starting noticing side effects that became increasingly ominous. I had muscle spasms and joint pain. I had to pee at least four or five times a night which interrupted sleep greatly. I also felt like a different person completely. I was much more easily agitated and lost a lot of weight because I mostly smoked instead of eating. My friend was a worst case. He began to have grandiose thoughts, some which were violent. He would break things in a rage that even to a fellow smoker seemed uncalled for. If you tried to talk sense to him he only became worse. We both developed bad coughs and dark brown and black stuff would come up. I decided that we both had to get off of the stuff and I quit mail ordering it. That was the only way to get it near the end as it was pulled out of local smoke shops etc. I have gotten over my cough and am finally feeling human again, but as I said in the prior post my friend has pnuemonia. I feel guilty that I introduced him to this crap, and guilty that I ever smoked it myself. Good luck to those who continue to use this stuff as you will need it. I won’t ever touch it again. I also don’t smoke mj anymore. After smoking this you can’t get high on the natural stuff anymore. I hope this helps somebody out there.

  • Feb 25th 201222:02
    by ashley

    Reply

    After reading my post, I realized I didn’t mention the withdrawals. They are terrible. No sleep for days at a time. You feel sick at your stomach and can’t eat much for many days, not to mention the horrible depression and self loathing. The first week is the worst, but it lasts beyond that. It is hell, but you will make it if you want it bad enough. I made it along with being cussed at and fighting with my friend because I wouldn’t order it anymore. After a few days he realized I had done him a great favor. He realized how unreasonable his rants had been, and that it put him out of his mind.

  • Mar 3rd 201210:03
    by Robert

    Reply

    Tried it for about a year.

    No side effects. No joint pain, no heart attacks, no digestion problems, no strokes.

  • Mar 5th 201202:03
    by Z

    Reply

    19 yr old here

    Quit smokin “Mr nice guy” after a few months. Never noticed any major side effect UNLESS you smoke too much.

    Spice high: 0-100+ and keep going until it gets badd
    Weed/MJ high: 0 to 55 and crusing (GOOD!)
    I consider myself relatively smart, college student (studying bioengineering) and I can say this THIS STUFF IS DANGEROUS!

    Although it does give you a “high” you CANNOT smoke too much of it. Take 1 hit and WAIT or you will pay the price with all the side effects mentioned above. I feel there are long term effects that are unknown and this is why i stopped. Dont cheat yourself with this crap. Go to your local supplie and get the real deal (some MJ). I can support the statements above talking about the excessive rapid heartbeat from smoking too much. My hearbeat was so fast i couldnt calculate it and was freaking out.

    NEVER combine it with other drugs too! Seen many of my friends inebriated to say the least and on a couple occasions have seen some of them smoke spice while really drunk. Although they are REALLY drunk they are still relativly coherent (carry on conversations, normal bodily function etc). However 5-10 minutes (time for the JWH chem strain to kick in) after hitting they immediately start a downward spiral. In n out of consciousness, cant walk/stand, cant put together a sentence, throwing up (not from alcohol b/c its usually a bit after the 5-10 dwell period. In addition on of my friends started coughing up blood. All of them recovered fine but still VERY DANGEROUS.

    Please please please smoke MJ over this crap.

    • Mar 27th 201222:03
      by echo

      Reply

      Alright, I have been scanning forums over the last several weeks, both for my personal situation, and to possibly shed some light on someone elses situation, from someone with more then a little experience with synthetic cannabinoids, as well as a pretty wide list of illegal and/or controlled substances.

      First I would like to start by saying that I do not agree the government should control what goes into our bodies on a private level. My synthetic cannabinoid use can be summed up as a personal attempt to ascertain the personal short term risks, side effects and/or withdrawal effects of different store bought herbal blends, as well as some stints ingesting lab tested, 99.9% pure cannabinoid compounds. This test was out of pure curiosity I may add!!!

      I wan’t to strongly urge that these synthetic cannabinoids are NOT a replacement for recreational, daily marijuana use. These compounds are drugs, and although very similar to structure and effect as THC, they lack all of the other natural cannabinoids found in the “real deal”. One these natural occuring compounds is actually what the THC degenerates into on a growing Cannabis plant, CBD or Cannibidiol. The Cannibidiol’s main purpose on a fully matured, fully flowered plant is to keep the THC from causing the animals that would pollinate the plants, from getting extreme psychoactive effects and hallucinations, that would in turn keep them from successfully pollinating other flowering plants.

      Keeping this in mind, when you smoke natural cannabis, you are getting both THC and CBD and therefor experience little to no psychosis, anxiety, or derealization(this of course differs on a case to case basis, and can be affected by latent schizophrenia).

      During my herbal incense use I would like to add that I was not using any real cannabis, nor using any other mind altering substances(in fact I stopped drinking a few days after my initial smoking of the synthetics as I felt amazing and needed no other head changes). I smoked a range of products over following months, including “Mary Janes Herbal Blend”, “Seedless”, “Smoking Camel”, “G6″, “Legal Devil”, “Demons Breath”, “Nugz” as well as a couple of other local brands, mostly all of which these products I suspect to contain AM-2201 due to their extremely low prices, and extreme, bordering unpleasant effects(AM-2201 is active at a much lower dose then most cannabinoids while costing less then most of the others commonly used).

      I found brand that gave effects lasting 2-4 hours with very calming effects, unlike many of the other products I had tried, but eventually this EXPENSIVE brand became a bit expensive to be regularly buying, so I would fill in with the cheaper local brands (which I later found to be containing the AM-2201). It didn’t take long smoking these other blends with the stronger, less relaxing, more psychoactive compounds in them, before I noticed obvious changes in my demeanor and facial mannerisms. I can sum this up with very mild anxiety, which was very obviously directly related to the amount and frequency smoked.

      This mild anxiety soon turned into a very interesting mindstate which I was having trouble explaining or describing, as I almost felt like I was in a dream most days. This at first was far from unpleasant as i felt a good break from monotonous life, but with more consumption, this false sense of derealization quickly faded into a pure disconnect of mind conscious mind and body. I would have instance where I was projecting outside my body and watching myself move very clumsily due to muscle fatigue. My arms didn’t feel like my arms. When looking in the mirror, I would see an absolutely shattered self image of myself.

      For obvious reasons, at this point I stopped all intake and in a anxious rage, threw away every last jar and half joint into the trash. The next few days were surreal to say the least. I felt very little withdrawal effects, and almost no urge to smoke again, just constant derealization and depersonalization caused by intense anxiety, and the occasional mild panic attack(I note the withdrawal comment as my body and mind were so disgusted and confused with what was happening that I almost a recoil from consuming more, like touching hot fire).

      I had been reading about derealization and depersonalization for the weeks coming into the feelings, knowing that they were common side effects, as well as withdrawal effects, and therefor was not in fear that I was going to die, or that I was infected by some parasite as many report. I had also read about the use of the naturally occuring CBD cannabinoid to relieve the anxious and psychotic side effects, such as it would have done with THC in the real Cannabis plant.

      Knowing this, I set out on a mission to find the nastiest bag of ditch weed I could find(low in THC, high in CBD). A couple of Juans later, I had found my bag and I set home to see if I could regain some semblance of sanity back. Low and behold, the first night the effects were SO greatly reduced, my self image was nearly restored, and my skin sensitivity was back to a reasonable level. The next couple days I felt better every day, and after a week enough of the CBD has worked it’s way into my fat cells that I feel no psychosis, and almost no anxiety.

      SO THERE IT IS!!!! unfortunately our government deems it illegal and a danger to public health!!!!

      Anyways parents if your kids think they are going crazy, THEY AREN’T GOING CRAZY, crazy people don’t think that they are crazy. Sane people with extreme and crippling anxiety think they are going crazy, and the doctors will not be able to help as they are not equipped to do the bidding of nature, as this post clearly shows. All the doctors will do is treat the symptoms, probably with a slew of other dangerous and addictive chemicals, treating for schizophrenia and other misdiagnosed disorders.

      Long live FREE THINKING, don’t believe everything your told, DO SOME GODDAMN RESEARCH. You clearly are not fit to parent a child in this day and age if you can’t type this shit into google search bar and find out how to fix your child for fucks sake….

  • Mar 13th 201203:03
    by Tyler

    Reply

    All i needed was a medical marijuana card. I was qualified in 6 states. But then this shit came to town. All kids use it for is because its easy to get, mimics marijuana and is legal. noone cards you either, plus its got fancy names and even the state makes money off its sales.Well here i am, 9 ER visits, 3 medications, recommended for Psychiatric ward, or Hamilton center, (I.E) (mental treatment) numerous acupuncture app.s, 3 doc appointments so far, one is set tomorrow. I almost died yesterday in the E.R…. havent used it in a month and a half. Im 22 years old. This shit destroyed me. FUCK SYNTHETICS, I HOPE IF YOU STILL SMOKE IT IT FUCKING KILLS YOU. and if you got a problem. FUCK YOU TOO. I dont wanna hear it. I Dont think ill ever be the same. It hurts all my family. It IS addicting, and fucks up everything in your body. dosent matter if you havent smoked bath salts, they blend the shit near times of bans. You ignorant fucks can suck my dick. Anyone saying that its ok smokes it and dosent give a fuck about the sufferers. they got some stupid ass reason(s) why it should be legal and blame everything they can to keep it legal. Keep smoking dopehead and shut the fuck up before i knock your teeth in. My brother almost died yesterday.

    • Apr 7th 201202:04
      by Mr.4:20

      Reply

      I know exactly what you are talking about that shit fucked me up too although I haven’t had many major problems myself exept some nerve damage and being slightly suicidal for awile. My cousin is a completely different person, a friend of mine over dosed and died on the way to the hospital, and another was on mad hatter, tryed to kill himself and ended up just blowin his fuckin face off. You should definitely start smoking real weed if you aren’t already it helps alot, i’m not having many problems any more and do not crave that government piss any more, just proves that weed is real medicine. But don’t be tryin to party with it until you start getting better.

  • Mar 13th 201211:03
    by Daniel

    Reply

    I was in the military in 2010 and smoked K2 and other ‘spice’ regularly, since it wasn’t tested for in any urine tests. Many in my platoon smoked in their cars, on base, even right before formations. I know of two people having seizures in a 6 month span before I left, one of which was my wife. We smoked it out of a vaporizor (bad idea) and she seized out in the bathroom and broke her shoulder very badly.
    This isn’t a bunch of bull people are making up because they are scared of something. These compounds are dangerous.

  • Mar 19th 201214:03
    by Smokeless Cigarettes

    Reply

    I think marijuana should be included in smokeless cigarettes. I have tried to get THC inside one of my smokeless cigarette cartridges. the problem is that the atomizer does not heet up enough. If you could get hte same benefits from the THC inside the smokeless cigarette cartridge, then it could really be benefical to our health, for those who use it for medicicinal purposes! ;)

  • Apr 22nd 201204:04
    by z3417

    Reply

    Istarted smoking it coz of probation, fucked my head up bad, severe symptoms of Schizophrenia on three seperate times that I had let the addiction get bad and then quit smoking. I can say I am done for good but im not toatally. Sure im not too late …no peeing right or pooping or sleeping or eating and totally dillusional and paranoid, sore all over, shit is bad babd bad…its been a week and it feels like I’ve been on meth since I quit.

  • Apr 22nd 201204:04
    by z341

    Reply

    Istarted smoking it coz of probation, fucked my head up bad, severe symptoms of Schizophrenia on three seperate times that I had let the addiction get bad and then quit smoking. I can say I am done for good but im not toatally. Sure im not too late …no peeing right or pooping or sleeping or eating and totally dillusional and paranoid, sore all over, shit is bad babd bad…its been a week and it feels like I’ve been on meth since I quit.

  • [...] marijuana. Manufacturers quickly reacted to the law, and to avoid prosecution, came up with different formulations for the synthetic ingredients which still had marijuana-like effects, but were not banned under the law. Additionally, folks [...]

  • Jun 21st 201204:06
    by Liza

    Reply

    Ok… so, those who have tried or researched marijuana and its effects know that it is not dangerous, addicting, or harmful. ( To any great extent. Unless, of course, It is just used WAY too much. Use prudently!). So, my question to you all is, whose private agenda is “Above the Influence” pushing? Or, are those behind it just misinformed, although well-meaning, people? I mean, the DEA ADMITS that it is less addictive and harmful than alcohol and tobacco.

    Don’t you guys just love propaganda? lol.
    Thanks!

  • Jun 26th 201212:06
    by J

    Reply

    If you guys want a information from personal experience I live in Virginia very close to Maryland. I tried K2 that had the banned compounds. One time I had a bad experience where my heart was beating really fast, I was sweating, my teeth chattered and I was scared something was going to happen. Eventually it went away and I never tried that kind again it was called Space Cadet 100x and it was very very strong. Those kinds should be outlawed 100% in my opinion because if they are put in the wrong kids hand things could go very wrong. However almost any other kind I have tried now that don’t have the 5 compounds I have had 0 problems with. It gives you a buzz feeling like marijuana and last about 30 minutes to an hour. It really isn’t that bad and most of my friends that have tried it agree. I think that it helps these kids on probation who can’t smoke who are scared to smoke marijuana so they turn to this drug. I have seen it so much. If marijuana was legal, trust me none of these kids, or myself, would be using this drug. I don’t think that it is anywhere close to being as bad as alcohol and all these people blaming spice on eating people like bath salts are crazy.. People hear about the bath salts and put spice in the same category which is wrong.. I think that they should do research on this product. I also think it is outrageous that they haven’t had studies on this product.. if kids really are hurting themselves then shouldn’t we know this instead of never knowing? Sometimes I don’t get the world.

  • Aug 10th 201202:08
    by Brandon

    Reply

    My friend was smoking spice for a while but said he stopped when they made it illegal. (over a week ago I think) but then he stopped sleeping. His ex-girlfriend was in town which added to his stress and then he went psychotic. He kept talking about god. Even claimed he met god and that he was god. He’s in the psychiatric hospital now. He was suicidal, thought he would hurt somebody else, highly delusional and had violent outbreaks. This guy is one of the nicest guys I know and was highly educated, functional and responsible. Now he just started antipsychotic meds. Like others said, I don’t know if the spice drew out an underlying psychosis/schizophrenia but they seem to be related. It’s almost been a week now. We all want our friend back! This has been a terrible experience and his poor family is worried sick. I hope this doesn’t last much longer.

  • Sep 4th 201211:09
    by Cindi Bernhardt

    Reply

    The sale of synthetic drugs must be stopped before it destroys all of our kids aren’t they our future?Close down the smoke shops and revoke all of the dealers business licenses it must stop!I just wish it would have been a little sooner then my son wouldn’t be locked in a alternate universe and he could be there for the birth of his first child.

  • Nov 5th 201220:11
    by BE DUMB END UP DEAD

    Reply

    OK YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS SPICE.ITS COMING FROM THE HORSE MOUTH.I SMOKE THAT SPICE FOR YEARS AND NO SIDE AFFECT.JUST A GOOD BUZZ AND JUST ONE DAY I GOT LIT UP AND WENT TO LAY DOWN WITH MY WIFE.ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE SAID I STARTED SAYING IM DIEING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.I FELL TO THE FLOOR AND CAME UP ON MY TOES LIKE A DEMON FROM THE MOVIES WITH WEIRD SOUNDS COMING FROM MY VOICE.I MEAN LIKE SOMETHING FROM THE MOVIES.I RAISED UP AS HIGH AS I COULD GET AND STARTED GRABBING MY SON BY THE SHIRT TRYING TO THROW HIM IN THE RESTROOM.THEY TRIED VERY HEAVILY TO HOLD ME BACK FROM HIM.HE IS ONLY 14 AND I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS OUT OF HIM.I MEAN A REAL GOOD KID.THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS WRONG.LIKE I WAS DEVIL OR DEMON. EVERONE STARTED YELLING AND YELLING WHATS WRONG AND I COULDNT SPEAK MY OWN VOICE.I WENT ON AS I HEARD FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES.THEY CALL THE AMBULANCE AND POLICE.THEY CAME IN AND CHECK MY VITALS AND I WAS FINE.MORAL TO THIS WHAT WERE I TRYING TO DO TO MY FAMILY I DONT KNOW AS I ALSO YELL IN A CRAZY VOICE FOR MY 8 YEAR OLD AND SAYING BRING HIM TO ME KNOW.NOW YOU TELL ME WHAT IS UP WITH THIS STUFF OR BETTER YET KEEP SMOKING DAT SHIT AND WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS OR MAKE WEED LEGAl tax it and sell it where the fake shit is and regulate it like alchohol.my family is terrified of me and dat who knows what is in it.i love my family and wouldnt hurt a fly i dont drink or do anything as a drug and dat shit is not worth hurting myself or my family over,so dont be stupid or better yet be stupid and sit and explain why i dont need dat in my life and watch your picture come up on a news cast.BELIEVE ME IT AINT WORTH IT AND WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY SOLD YOU.THATS WHY THEY SAY ITS NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION,BE SMART AND REMEMBER IT HAPPEN TO ME WHEN WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.IM DONE ILL STAY HIGH ON LOVE ITS FREE.

  • Nov 15th 201215:11
    by Anonymous

    Reply

    First of all, the people accusing these kids of smoking meth or other drugs- just shut your mouth. Just because it didn’t affect you the same way doesn’t mean that these kids were smoking crack or meth or anything else besides “spice”. Everyone’s brain chemistry is different and things affect everyone different ways and if you are too stupid to realize that then its your own damn funeral. I smoked mr. Nice guy, black magic, and another brand that was a “power plant” scent or whatever and it affected me like those kids. Now, I am an A/B honor roll college student and yes I have smoked weed before and started the fake stuff to pass a drug test. And it was all fine and dandy until one time I smoked a bowl and something in my brain snapped. Now this was straight from a head shop, not bought off the street or anything else. I didn’t know where I was, I didn’t feel any connection to my family and friends even though I did recognize them, and it took me two weeks to be able to have a conversation with my mother without feeling like she was a stranger. Right after I hit the bowl a third time my head started going weird and I felt like it was being pulled backwards and I couldn’t stop it. So my head kept dropping back against the seat and I couldn’t even think of anything because all I could hear in my head was “what the fuck is going on” over and over and over, it sounded like someone else’s voice or my own brain trying to comprehend what was happening to me. Yes, this sounds like I tools acid or some kind of hallucinogen, and no, I did acid twice around 5&7 years ago and havent touched it since. I have never in my life smoked meth or bath salts or anything crazy like that. I tried liting a cigarette to calm myself down and I felt like the cigarette wasn’t lighting but I burned a quarter of my cigarette just trying to light it. My boyfriend said that my eyes turned white and he thought I was going to die. After that I started hearing what I thought were other people’s thoughts, opinions, personal info, etc.. I also thought that myself, my boyfriend, and a few other friends were “Fallen angels” and we had to try to fix the world and could control things like electricity or video games and stuff like that. Sounds like I belong in a looney bin right? I’m not even done. Songs were directed towards me, I thought very one could tell who I was and that the devil was after me because he didn’t want me to save the world. Today, it has been two years since I’ve touched that garbage and although I no longer hear the voices or think I can read others thoughts, I can still feel the affects of the drug but I can reason myself down from it now. And I had it EASY. My boyfriend and his sister were also smoking the stuff and they smoked a lot more then I did (they did at least 5 bowls a day). And the drug never affected my boyfriends sister, no side affects whatsoever. But about a year ago my boyfriend started hearing voices like I was but his was much more intense. He thought that the devil and god were both some of the voices in his head (at one point he was hearing 8-10 voices, it is now down to 4) and all of the voices comment on what he does or tell him where something he misplaced is. Sometimes they call him a stupid asshole and tell him to jump off of a balcony. He was so paranoid he thought people were following him and spying on us. And it even got to the point where he saw one or two people that weren’t there. I found him one day yelling at the empty couch cushion. And right now you’re probably saying he’s schizophrenic but we have been to 3 psychiatrists and all three of them said he did not have schizophrenia. One was very certain that it was a mix of the drug and PTSD because we lived in a very noisy apartment (I’m talking you could hear 5 TV’s at once and hear others conversations) and most of the others couldn’t diagnose him because they did not think he was schizophrenic or bi-polar but they didn’t know enough about the drug to be able to help him. They tried putting him on three different antipsychotics but none of them stopped it. So he stopped taking medication. And he could push it put of his head like I could for a while but when he gets stressed he can still hear them yelling at him and no doctor has been able to help us because they don’t know enough about the drug. Now, there is no history of mental illness in either of our family historys. I know for a fact that it’s from the spice because I’m about 98% better now and I can still remember all of it like it was a bad dream. I never took any antipsychotic’s, I got better all on my own with no medication. And I got lucky. You don’t “get over” schizophrenia- its a lifetime disorder. It is manageable with medication but it is not curable. So all of you people saying that it must just be a mental disorder please explain to me how I had these experiences for TWO YEARS and am not schizophrenic or bipolar or anything. Doctors don’t know shit about these chemicals. Look up some blogs- you will find people all over the country with a lot of the same symptoms, some more severe, some less, some last a short while, and some people have been dealing with it for months or years. This is not a joke. It is not something to be messed with. If you read all of this and still decide to do it- I hope you don’t have an experience like I did. It almost ruined my life and it made my boyfriends life a living nightmare. Really think before you risk the rest of your life over a cheap/ weird feeling high. Stick to weed. Don’t smoke this synthetic crap- if you can’t smoke for your job and you are that much of a stoner you can’t hold off to pass a DT, quit your job and get a different one that doesn’t test. Trust me, it’s not worth it.
    Mine wasn’t too bad, I heard voices but I could block it out at points and I learned a lot about myself in the process. It was a hard, LONG trip. And the risk of being fucked up forever isn’t worth it. I thought I was going to be messed up forever and I guess I still am somewhat screwy in the head at this point but I can function and tell what is real or a dream- that’s another side effect. Everything will seem like a video game and like a dream and over time it gets harder to tell the two apart. Again- my boyfriend and I have NEVER done bath salts. His sister was actually addicted to PCP a while back (before we ever smoked spice) but guess what, she wasn’t affected by the spice like we were! She got a little lost an confused once or twice but she never heard voices like we did. So all you smartasses that say the spice couldn’t possibly do that, explain that one to me. Don’t be childish and think “it will never happen to me” because you know what? Maybe you’re right, but what if you are wrong? Do you want to spend years trying to pick op the pieces of your life and figuring out who the hell tou are again? It’s a long process. And I know people are going to post after this and say I am full of crap or I’m smoking crack or meth or whatever else they can come up with, but they don’t know me and they don’t what the hell I went through to get to where I am now. I only hope that this post helps other people realize that this could ruin their lives. I’m not against drugs- I’m against fucking around with chemicals you know nothing about. It’s not a game. If you want to gamble with your sanity go for, but for all you smart people out there- stay far away from this synthetic crap. Smoke weed!! If you have to pass a drug test, take a bunch of niacin or a kit from a head shop or I’ve even heard drinking a cup of vinegar helps if you can stomach it, but for gods sake stay away from spice. There are other ways around a drug test and even quitting smoking for 28 days will get it out of your system. 28 days of being irritated and pissed off is a lot better then risking your sanity for the rest of your life. Doctors can’t help much at this point so just don’t do them okay? Save yourself. Or you could have all the doctors bills and be no closer to helping you find your mind. I pray that they find something to help not only my boyfriend but everyone else out there who are experiencing similar symptoms to myself and my boyfriend and I hope that people read this and tell anyone they love to stay away from it because you could lose who they were forever. You will not be the same once you go through what we did. It changes you. If you have a child and they are smoking this stuff, it is better if you just let them smoke weed. Trust me. You may hate weed and drugs and letting them smoke weed may be against everything you stand for, but I’m going to tell you right now, if they want to smoke they will find a way to smoke no matter what you do. So save yours child’s sanity and just let them smoke weed. They may be a little forgetful or even annoyingly stoned when you want to talk to them. But trust me, the feeling of having a hospital take someone you love to a mental facility for evaluation is much worse then a little pot. Plus the fact that there is no cure for this. They will get over their weed stupidity, but you can’t get over something that changes your brain chemistry for good. Think about it. Do you want a pot head kid who is a little lazy or a child who is paranoid and hearing voices and can NEVER have peace and quiet in their own mind so they become angry and hostile because they are trying to deal with having their mind taken over. Weed seems like a little pebble compared to this stuff, I’ve seen it from the inside. You don’t want to spend thousands at the doctors who can’t even diagnose or help you. Your child will become a human lab rat because they will try everything because nothing works because they don’t actually know what is making the brain act or stay like this.
    But I’ve ranted long enough. If you are thinking about trying spice I would heavily and carefully considering going crazy for the rest of your life before you start. Because once you start you get addicted like a cocaine addict and it is VERY hard to quit.
    We were spending $50-150 a DAY on this stuff after the first few times we smoked. You build up a tolerance quick and then it’s just downhill from there. Maybe you wi get lucky, or maybe you won’t. That is your own decision you make.
    I never knew that this stuff could have these affects- I never would have thought it in a million years because I thought it was like weed and I’ve smoke weed since I was 14 (I’m now 22) and this stuff is nothing like it. I never thought a fake weed could do this, but obviously whatever chemical was in there reacted with something in my brain and now It is what it is.
    Side note- my boyfriend smoked it for two years before this happened and my side affects happened about a year before his. This all happened when they started the bans and started changing the chemicals. So whatever you do, please be careful. Thanks for reading!

  • Feb 15th 201304:02
    by Daniel

    Reply

    The 2005 Analogue Act is absolutely flawed, regardless of one’s view on the issue of regulation.
    The phrase “substantially similar” is absolutely unspecific. It means nothing and puts no restraint on the law. Thus it both allows absolute freedom to defining similarity and, as a corollary, becomes that much more difficult to reinforce due to its unclear description.
    The DEA has also published a microgram claiming to have enacted a conviction due to the analog act. (http://www.justice.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/journal_v3_num34/journal_v3_num34_pg6.html)
    The actual conviction was for the production of a small amount of the scheduled substance, whereas the production of and distribution of the analog went uncharged.
    This latter sleight of hand is more inappropriate than the weasel words of the Analog Act because it is a blatant fabrication.

  • Jun 20th 201312:06
    by Jason White

    Reply

    The National Institute on Drug Abuse released survey results in Dec 2011 reporting that one in nine high school seniors had used “Spice” or “K2” i.e. making synthetic marijuana the second most commonly used illicit drug, after marijuana, among high school seniors. Would that mean that synthetic marijuana to those kids?

  • Leave a Reply


    9 − three =